I’m sure Banksy is all about partying with topless American frat boys at overpriced played out dnb clubs. Look for him at a booth in the back blowing rails with branjolina.

sucker

signed,
-B

America and Americans are totally within scope of any and all forms of criticism. I’m not rejecting that. I don’t I embrace it.

Let me be clear, I don’t care a shred whether or not America and Americans are criticized online/in art/in vandalism for being “THE asshole country”.

In regards to the vandalism I think it’s kind of neat, I equate it to phrases like “Fuck the police”. It does not bother me. I also don’t agree that America is special in being above criticism. You cannot claim to be from a representative country and be against criticism.

But I also don’t think that I’ve sparked a cultural debate, so much as defend against an insult. I don’t think that criticism and insults are the same. I am not talking about the picture that Alec posted either, so much as the comments in the thread. The picture doesn’t bother me. The off the cuff statement that all of America is bad does bother me.

We do have a representative system, for better or for worse. And right now it is for the worse. Americans have voted for security through violence out of fear, and the current administration reflects those beliefs. I don’t agree with any of them, but that’s the nature of our system…in America the bad guy can win. But democracy is not inherently benevolent and it carries many flaws with it, I and many other recognize that. But it’s the system we grew up in, and with all consequences bundled in we accept that burden.

I still think that I’m confusing the conversation, I’ve got no problems at all with the Fuck USA graffiti, I was upset because Lauris’s statement wasn’t a criticism it was just a lash out. I agree that there is a lot wrong with the USA and one doesn’t have to look far to see things wrong with it. But I personally didn’t appreciate the way it was said.

I’m curious, you seem to equate the citizens with the elected body, what do you do in your country when your elected body enacts polices that are against your personal wishes? In America most of the civilian body becomes politically powerless when leaders deviate from initial campaign promises or when they deviate from public opinion. President Bush is very unpopular right now, but Americans don’t really overthrow their government often, but he’s also acting outside the scope of what most Americans desire?

Other than electing a different set of policies what do you expect American citizens to do?

Belfast is in another country. It has nothing to do with the actions of the government of Ireland or the people of Ireland as a whole, let alone our current identity, which is what is being discussed here. If you want to discuss asshole nations through history, I’m sure i could have a decent go at the british for occupying my country for 700 years against constant rebellion and opposition from the natives, but that doesn’t help anyone and both countries have moved on from it.

As far as missing your point goes, i don’t think i did, your point was “and where are you from that makes your country so flawless?”
Then it seemed to be- due to your clarification- America isn’t the sole bad country in the world. “I am touchy about any comment that implies that America is the only asshole country in the world, because that isn’t true either.”
Then it seemed to be why do other countries all pick on america and americans online. “My problem stems from the holier than thou attitude that is rampant across the internet towards ALL Americans.”

The reputation your country has garnered is deserved. You as a citizen as well as your government and military are responsible for letting it reach this stage. Hence you recieve hostility from people online because no other country is as reprehensible as America for problems arising in alot of the world. (distribution of wealth, political interference, conflict, the spreading of fear rather than understanding through open threats made by your executive)

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t hate america, americans or you. But when you come online, identify yourself as an american and spark off a cultural debate by defending the place with political rhetoric (underlying set of good values, single dark transgression) you embody what annoys people from the rest of the planet about America, as it is now. (the whole not practicing what you preach thing)

Now let me pose you this one question if you will indulge me: Why shouldn’t America and Americans be criticised online/in art/in vandalism for being “THE asshole country”? And if they can’t be criticised for what they’ve done wrong, what could the rest of the world do about it instead?

Here is my comment from Reddit:

Hrm, you may have me rethinking my words. I had the following impressions of Romania, which is heavily skewed towards my experience in Bucharest where the majority of my time was spent: first world education and economic development, second world government, third world levels of poverty and living conditions. I’ll put my thoughts down about the latter since that’s what you’re probably interested in: Romania has terrible problems with poverty, human trafficking, pollution, and drug abuse.

I’ll share the two things that stick out in my mind that made Romania an outlier in my days of traveling/work: 1) I have never in my life been harassed by more fucked up pre-teens. Their drug of choice of was huffing model glue to the point of asphyxiation. This would turn them into change-hungry zombies who would pull and tug at you from all directions. Yes, a lot of these children were gypsies (Romania has the highest gypsy, or Roma, population in Europe and they remain really isolated from the rest of Romanian society). I also saw a small group of these kids (all under 13 I’d estimate) having a mini-orgy right on a subway platform. 2) Bucharest is the only place I’ve been to where it’s inadvisable to run in the city. Why? Because the streets, even in the good section of the city, are filled with stray dogs that have formed packs. In 2001, the estimates were of 300,000 stray dogs. Given that Bucharest has ~ 2 million people, that’s 15 percent of the mammal population in the city. I’d frequently see half chewed up cats, rats, or other dogs on my quarter of a mile walk to work.

Anyway, point being is that one can have a decent amount of income but still have a low living standard. I know average income and per capita GDP are easy numerical ways of dividing the world into first / second / third tiers, but there’s a lot of indicators that make me place Romania outside of the ‘first world’.

You missed the point. You’ve said nothing I disagree with in the slightest. My problem stems from the holier than thou attitude that is rampant across the internet towards ALL Americans.

Part of the problem is this far reaching stereotype that all Americans are fat, lazy, selfish, greed oriented, and fully supporting of all international actions. That’s bigotry straight and simple.

And that’s the crux. I have no problems at all with critical attacks on the United States. It’s a country that is deserving of it, and no nation should be above scrutiny, especially when they wield the power that the U.S.A. does.

But internally the U.S.A. is a horridly complicated place. It’s easy to point a finger and say that the internal population should do better, and in all fairness we should, but the time it takes to motivate 300,000,000 people is immense it takes years; especially when you’ve got a system in place where people must motivate themselves.

I asked about where Lauris lives because I agree his animosity is in the right place, but his statement isn’t. You are partially right that history isn’t the main issue right now, but a nation’s history frames current events, and eventually these current events will be history that frames the issues of the future. So in my mind I see that as a method for reference. I’m sure it’s not the best way, but that’s how I approached it.

In regards to the history of Ireland, I do not know much, I can 100% admit that, but I do remember growing up as a kid watching car bombs exploding in Belfast, and a large number of civilian deaths. Considering what I saw of that violence, I do not think that Ireland has as clean of a slate as you profess, but I could be wrong, I am only writing about what I remember seeing on television.

To Nef:

you are absolutely right. I totally agree with what you have said, and in light of that perspective I should have re-evaluated how I phrased my argument, but I still stand by my sentiment. The United States has some real problems, but they are solvable. However America has never been a country where public awareness changes quickly on it’s own. External forces have always forced America and Americans to react, and I mean this in regards to overall public knowledge. It took the attacks on the World Trade Center for most Americans to even know what countries are actually in the middle east.

I’m not trying to validate that perspective, but the USA is really unique in it’s traditions of isolation that are re-enforced by it’s global location. We really are out on our own in both literal and figurative ways.

Again, I must emphasize that I am not trying to excuse the behavior, but one must realize that the American view of the world is radically different than those of other countries and it’s a view that comes directly from the culture and history of the country.

I hope this helps to explain, and I welcome further discussion on the issue.

And AlvinBlah, America is the BIGGEST asshole country in the world. Not the only one, but the biggest and worst. Here’s why: the most nuclear arms in the world by far, underage death penalty, exclusive and class-based education system, racism tolerated in legal system, archaic drug sentences, untrained unlicensed hand gun owners and users, manipulation of the control of oil, extolling the virtues of freedom while being the most oppressive military force on the planet, extolling the virtues of free speech while curtailing, coercing and manipulating your media, denying your own people a right to privacy, number 1 decimator of our eco-system (i.e. Planet Earth) through emissions, pollution and laziness, and all this while your representatives in government tell us that America cares or America is no.1

- as far as I know, NO other country in the world right now has as much chance of unwittingly dragging society in its entirety to a collapse as the USA is. The underlying set of good values you speak of end up as nothing but lip-service and camoflage while your government does things like tortures people illegaly in another country. I’m from Ireland, whats our single dark transgression in the past? who cares- maybe the invasion of scotland in 500AD…. this isn’t about the past! (and good job too- remember the native american genocide, slavery) and even right now our biggest transgression seems to be not providing adequate health care for our own citizens- oooh soomething in common. Point is mister, America is THE asshole country defined. If all you get for it is a bit of abuse in art/vandalism, consider yourself lucky.