You seem like a smart person, please research this stuff more before publishing your opinion. Thank you

Peoples’ views of cultures and history depends a great deal upon where they learned about their culture and history. Shia, you said that the common view is that the US government is controlled by Freemasons, and other secret organizations, I have read about other accounts of people believing this in the middle east. People should not look at this and think it is crazy, they may be ignorant of the US history, but that is because of how they learned about the history of the US. Without access to primary sources of historical evidence, any conjecture can be made to be ‘real’. History is not a series of facts, but a series of interpretations of facts based off of our biases about any given subject. Hezbollah attacks a Israeli army barracks, Israelis and the United States see this as a terrorist act, many Muslims, especially those in Lebanon, see this as military act, other countries around the world see it as a legitimate attack from one military group to another in defense of their land. The only “western” countries that recognize Hezbollah as terrorists is Israel and the USA, other countries do not recognize Hezbollah as terrorists.

I think that the great Jihad could us some explaining also, I do not think that Shia meant in any way that this would come completely from the behest of God, driven only by God, and enforced only through God. In order for a Jihad to happen it would require people to work together, and would require a building up of power. And it would need to subscribe to many of the core tenets of the Koran, honor and respect to others, even the enamy. Umar the Great, the second Imam (?), was a person who lived up to the tenets given out in the Koran. A Great Jihad would not be a force driven by God, it would be driven by people, under the guidance of a code of honor, that was dictated to men by God.

I am not sure how much of this makes sense, but here it is. My personal biases include being American, Alaskan, male, under 30, and being educated at a liberal arts college.

Yea, you are right – I came down kinda hard on generic religion in my second post. This was because it was given as a blanket nameless fix-it-all for the problem. “Just wait! The water will come! Where it has never come from in modern recorded history, and not likely to come from ever, it will come! Just you wait!” is not a good response for a lengthy response repeatedly suggesting to recognize, compromise, and work together. Heck, even if Shia said something along the lines of “we’re working on it [as a people, religion, movement etc], and we admit it’s gonna be really hard, but were gonna go there and attempt to have Israel pack up and leave in a manner never seen before” at least shows that they want to take some responsibility and make some action.

It would have been the same as if he told me he was folding 1000 paper cranes to have his wish granted. I’d go off on paper cranes.

“sit back and just wait for true Jihad” = do nothing, because the magic jihad will happen “sometime” . Nothing = continue on current path. Current path = more despair for the palestinians.

I’m still waiting for that predicted “end of the earth” Maybe the magic jihad and the Ghostbusters II predicted end of the earth on Valentine’s day 2016 will happen on the same day. all the previous “magic Jihad” dates, and similarly “end of the world” dates have come and gone with nothing doing. At least Ivan Reitman came up with a day to look forward to.

I say none of this to belittle Shia – maybe I’m just pointing out things from a point of view that isn’t that prevalent and well discussed. But when having a discussion back and forth with others, such as trying to define a majority of Hesbollah’s attacks as not terrorism, but giving me the magic Jihad flippant response to me, well, it tells me he isn’t really interested in discussions – merely attacking facts. It was easy to correct that person quoting incorrect and mistranslated passages, but claiming that their borders are not well defined, and having 1m websites that pretty much negate that, I get no response. No Hesbollah map to quote me? No response to the UN money supporting the palestinians? no response to the complete and utter strategic failure of all attacks against Israel? The tactical gains are not anything to write home about either. I would love to be refuted, or pointed towards alternate sources of information that he feels comfortable with in their quality that aren’t merely “magic Jihad” talking points.

Throwing out a blanket statement that Wikipedia is wrong with nothing to show why isn’t a good place to start. That person produced a list – where is his sources? The information being presented is distillation of the common knowledge of the **western world** ! He dismisses it in a sentence with no rhyme or reason. no articles or similar list of what he thinks is right. ab-so-lute-ly nothing. Trying to ignore easily found historical information isn’t either. Most of the things I want to talk about isn’t the “low hanging fruit” of a racist windbag trying to merely misquote crap and attack him for his race, place of origin, or so forth. I have no beef with Shia as a person, or the tenants of his religon. I know a few people from Iraq, Afghanistan, and some other eastern countries. Wonderful people.

This is merely a person put into the bad position of defending his religion from some haters, and saying his mind without being able to back it up with facts or reasoned talking points, just the “magic jihad” option for when the tough questions start coming. I’m just hoping that’s not how he solves his personal problems and challenges.

I’m looking for the critical thought, reasoning, and meaningful discussions. And that’s not really happening here.

I’ll be looking elsewhere now.

BTW : Thanks for the back n forth Errol – The world needs more people like you ^_^

Best of luck to you! I hope you’ll have another round of question and answer over here sometime and I hope one day we can meet as friends.

Hi Javbw, I’m sorry for making assumptions about you.

Shia is trying to show us his perspective, and since I’m not Muslim, I want to understand a bit of where he is coming from. It may help us understand something we don’t understand about the Shiite faith, which is a lot of things in my case.

The process of searching for a solution should involve learning everything you can about the other party. Currently, people quibble so much about who’s fault it is, who has a greater right to whatever, etc, but it’s not getting us anywhere.

Are you married? If you were in a heated argument with your wife or husband, and s/he makes some inane remark about his/her feelings, and you say “that’s not important now and is silly, so don’t bring it up”, that would get you in a heap of trouble. Well, it would get ME in a heap of trouble.

If I were to say to you “Humans, figure it out? That will never happen. We’re a violent species and you are silly to believe that we can coexist.” It’s not going to get us anywhere because we will argue about that instead of a solution.

You may argue that I sit here and try to ‘understand’ people, that millions are dying in the process. But there is never a quick fix to situations like these.

“That’s a great solution – another 2-3 generations of people growing up in poverty, continuing down the path for more destruction and persecution,”

Who said that they have to continue down the path for more destruction and persecution? The way that Shia describes his true Jihad, it doesn’t have anything to do with destruction. It doesn’t have anything to do with killing. At least from how I understand things.

I’m not for the removal of religion. My parents are very religious, and it is the foundation – a belief structure – that helps most of the planet live their lives. However, those guidelines are for helping YOU live your life – if you are going through hard times or have problems, they provide you with guidance and support how YOU solve the issues. If you have the chance to steal something, your religious guidance helps you make the decision that stealing is wrong. if you are in a dispute, they way you solve such disputes are helped along with those principles. I am an atheist, but I look at that aspect of religion as a wonderful and necessary part of existence. I have no problem with people believing whatever they wish to believe. It is the same choice I was given. However, if I’m dying of thirst in a desert, my faith will not magically supply me with water – the solution to my problem. It may however give me the mental fortitude to make the hard decision and trudge north for 40 grueling miles to where I think water is – the solution requiring the action of men.

There is a BIG difference between hoping my faith, beliefs, personal guidelines, solves my issues, or gives me the fortitude to actually solve my problems. Saying you hope a magic jihad will solve everything is the same a hoping water shoots out your ears when you are dying of thirst in the desert. both will never, ever happen. I’m sure Shia could quote out many great passages having to do with making decisions, and solving issues, in some form or another.

“Ironically, if you ask me, if they WERE to sit back and just wait for true Jihad, and if Israel were to sit back and just wait for the Messiah, that would solve the problem”

That’s a great solution – another 2-3 generations of people growing up in poverty, continuing down the path for more destruction and persecution, while their supporters sit idly by, while the UN and US’ money continues to keep them alive and fed, still being the continual scapegoats for Iran and Hesbollah.

I think they should step up and start *solving* this issue, instead of making sure it drags on for another 100 years.

43 dead
4,262 injured
33 seriously wounded
68 moderately wounded
1,388 lightly wounded

Israeli Military:

120 dead
400 wounded

Lebanese Civilians:

1,187 dead
3,600 wounded

Lebanese Military:

46 dead
100 wounded

Hezbollah:

250 reported by Hezbollah, More than 500 estimated by Lebanese officials,~500 estimated by United Nations, 600 estimated by IDF, 440 identified by Israel and up to 700 estimated by Amidror. More than 700 claimed by Lebanese sources.