The Conflation Of Religion And Ethics

Religion Ethics Comic

A reminder that actually being good and just is significantly different from labeling oneself as good or religious.

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  1. Cosmic Bob says:

    I would change the second last line to: “Religion does not correlate with ethics.” Leave out the “always”. Good poster though.

    • Anonymous says:

      I agree. “Not always” could represent a 99.99% correlation.

    • Anonymous says:

      Malcom X did agree that Blacks could use militant and violent tactics to protect themselves, as he was a member of a militant group for alot of his life, both he and Bin Laden believed in a “better” race, Take Malcom X out of this analogy

      • diego says:

        that was before he went to mecca and found his faith. learn something.

        • Troy says:

          Well I learned something. It seems finding faith and religion can make you a better and less racist person. Tell us diego; is it just Islam and Mecca that increases morality, or can any religion do that.
          To bad Hitler had never been to Mecca. We could have avoided the whole Holocaust/WW2 thing. If there’s one thing we know about the Muslims, its that they love them some Jews.

        • Anonymous says:

          The basic teaching of Islam is to destroy everyone who believes in somethings different than them. Some are radical about it and some arent but that is still one of the base teachings.

          • Anonymous says:

            Umm, no it isn’t…

          • Anonymous says:

            Islam and the basis of all religion is to teach us to do good and prevent evil deed~ your statement is ignorantly untrue. Please stop spreading nonsense fact~

      • Tone says:

        Malcolm X never believed in supremacy, only separation. You should look up writings, interviews and speeches during the last year of his life. With the veil of racism stripped away, he was able to develop all inclusive revolutionary ideals. Malcolm X did not lose the idea that violence has its place in protecting people and their rights. But, is that really “Bad/Evil?”

        Malcolm X may not be the best example to use in this context because of the general conception of him and the once crippling adherence he had to racist ideology leading up to the last year of his life. Even with that veil, he was still an integral part of the Civil Rights movement and made strides in helping Blacks in America gain pride/power.

        I really do suggest reading his ideas in his last year of life.

        • Anonymous says:

          The problem with is that Malcolm X still wanted races to be separated which seems still rather racist.

      • Anonymous says:

        he also said a man with a book is more powerful than a man with a gun.

  2. Anonymous says:

    bill gates made his millions trough theft

    • Anonymous says:

      i dont know which incident your talking about but even after all the court cases in the beginning the products are still used by too many people to live better lives to ignore it. besides, competition makes better products.

      • wh666 says:

        anon @ 1:08 was referring to MS stealing the UI off mac when bill gates worked for them and screwed them over.

        Bill gates is a common criminal and a scumbag for exploiting his own nation and then giving money away to African countries instead of repairing the damage he caused in his own country.

        I really hope he dies painfully from aids.

        • Jaqar S. says:

          If I recall correctly, Apple stole their idea and UI off of Xerox first. In fact, I could be mistaken but I believe rather than Bill Gates ripping his idea straight from Apple, they BOTH were “inspired” by Xerox..

          Also, consider this. If Apple had been the “top dog”, would things be any different? Perhaps worse, when you consider that Bill Gates at least has a track record of charitable and humanitarian causes, vs. Apple’s complete lack thereof and apathy toward the conditions at the factories where their products are manufactured.. Just something to think about.

          • Anonymous says:

            Steve Jobs and his friends were given the operating system from Xerox. Bill Gates stole it through reverse engineering while writing the first programs for Apple Computer.

            • Anonymous says:

              Stole, blah blah blah whatever!!! welcome to the world! Everybody steals everything! If a good idea comes up, other people will take it and put their tiny little twist to make it different. But just look what comes out at the end. Steve Jobs built a business that has tons of different products and was hurt non the less that Bill Gates may have taken Apple’s UI. BOTH people contributed to society with their technology. Its not like Bill Gates knows nothing about computers and literally stole a desktop and put it on a shelf. He made it his own. And he doesn’t wayyyyyyyy over charge for an Apple brand name, and then gives his profits away. He is the most charitble man in the world. And dumbasses, hes being smart by giving his money to Africa and whereever else instead of the US. He’s spreading the wealth, keeping America from becoming an even stronger monopoly. Its time we learn from our mistakes.

        • Anonymous says:

          Excuse me but I’m pretty sure Africa needs that money way more then we do, we are all human beings and we should take care of each other.

          The world needs less ignorant selfish douche bags as yourself and do take this sincerely when i say go fuck yourself

          • Anonymous says:

            America doesn’t need the money! We need money in our economy so we can give everybody free things, blah blah blahhhh. You can eat and are fairly fucking safe. People in other countries, yeah not so much.

            Gives us our freedom back by cutting government aid. Let us make our money and spend it on ourselves and others, instead of to the government. I would gladly give up healthcare, social security, disability, welfare. Instead of letting people free load, let the goodness of man cover them. Not the force of government.

            • Anonymous says:

              Bill Gates is giving his personal wealth and shut the fuck up and read something not on a Ron Paul blog or Fox.

            • pissed off says:

              You’d gladly give up disability? Spoken like someone who never had to spend their teenage years being the sole caregiver for their dying mother who worked 2 or 3 jobs for 52 years until she got a terminal and painful disease which killed her slowly while you had to go buy the basic food staples with food stamps and sleep with the front door wide open with a fan in front of it in the summer b/c disability doesn’t pay enough for you to be able to afford to run the ac.. There may be a lot of freeloaders in this country but there are a lot of hard working people that just get dealt a bad fucking hand, I suppose they should just be left to starve on the streets b/c you don’t wanna pay taxes? “Let us make our money and spend it on ourselves and others”???? Considering you’re words I highly doubt you would spend a nickel on others. Make any charitable donations lately? Yeah I thought not. Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes for once in your life you closed-minded pampered douche-bag.

        • Anonymous says:

          As someone who works in the Pacific Northwest, and works for non profits on top of that, I can safely say that you are very mistaken if you think Bill Gates has done nothing to help his own country. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is the largest foundation in world, and they support nearly every non profit in the Pacific Northwest. Yes, they provide aid and support for other countries as well, but when did helping your fellow human become an issue of borders? The Gates foundation provides support for EVERYONE.

  3. Anonymous says:

    hmm i wouldnt exactly call malcom x a “good muslim.” he was a member of the nation of islam, a religion that teaches anti-semitism. he wanted black rights by any means necessary, he didnt care if any body got hurt

    • Harris M'barack says:

      thank you! finally someone who think as i do!!

      merci enfin quelqu’un qui confirme ce que je pensais… c’est une bêtise sans nom de qualifier Malcolm X en tant que BON MUSULMAN. 1° d’abord parce qu’il était loin d’être bon 2°ensuite parce que Nation of Islam n’est pas du tout reconnu par l’Islam orthodoxe !!! il n’est donc pas pour moi un vrai musulman

    • Anonymous says:

      He joined Nation of Islam but later turned to true Islam after his visit to Mecca (about a year before he died). Malcolm X was only trying to protect his community from police brutality and nothing short of civil race war. I don’t understand why people don’t get it– white people harassed, lynched, enslaved, humiliated, and controlled every aspect of black people and their lives. They deserved justice and they knew that the government or white people were not the ones who would help.

      • Tony M says:

        That’s true but looking back at the extremist approach he was willing to take was and is looked down upon by our modern society.

  4. Harold Gorringe says:

    At first, I thought this had to do with facial hair…

  5. Eminence Frontman says:

    Until we make an organized effort to eliminate Christianity, just as was done to end the trans-Atlantic slave trade, we as a civilization cannot move forward. When belief in an invisible bearded sky zombie becomes the basis for running a constitutional republic, we are all in deep doo-doo.

    • Brooks Martyr says:

      you really are ignorant of history. Next time you are wasting time at the coffee house try reading something that was not written by Vonnegut, Nietzsche, Hitchens, or Dawkins. Being a closed minded psuedo intellectual is no way to go through life.

    • wh666 says:

      You are ignorant and a blatant racist, as you cite transatlantic slavery.

      Transatlantic slavery intruded on freedom, but at the time, many Africans lived in poverty with no centralised governments to provide for them, which made them easy to force in to slavery. Now their modern ancestors, have a far easier life unlike their family back on the African continent.

      Also Africans should be thankful for their part in slavery. If you knew anything about slavery, you would know that Africans were enslaved for the shortest period in history and the least numbers compared to other races.

      At the same time as the African slave trade, many other countries suffered from citizens being snatched and enslaved. Ireland, a relatively small country, had over three million abducted and sold in to slavery.

      Slavery still exists today among the longest and most enslaved race in the world, Caucasians. Eastern European women are promised jobs of being a waitress abroad and then beaten and sold as prostitutes. Some have tried to escape but had their legs broken and been treated far more cruelly than any African. Thousands are enslaved every year and some beaten and raped to death.

      So before you make a stupid, racist, cracker comment, maybe you should actually read your history books.

  6. what says:

    adolf hitler was not a christian. do some research.

    • misanthropope says:

      look, please never use the word “correlate” again. it’s a grown-up word, and you obviously don’t understand what it means.

    • ejes says:

      also hitler was a well known christian leader who had claimed in WRITING that he was doing gods work.

      do your reasearch!

      • Anonymous says:

        From Wikipedia:

        “In political relations with the church, Hitler adopted a strategy “that suited his immediate political purposes”. According to a US Office of Strategic Services report, Hitler had a general plan, even before his rise to power, to destroy the influence of Christian churches within the Reich. The report titled “The Nazi Master Plan” stated that the destruction of the church was a goal of the movement right from the start, but that it was inexpedient to express this extreme position publicly. His intention, according to Bullock, was to wait until the war was over to destroy the influence of Christianity”

        • anonymous says:

          You’re pulling your facts from Wikipedia? Try pulling a few quotes from Hitler’s book.

          I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

          Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.

          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

          I had so often sung ‘Deutschland über Alles’ and shouted ‘Heil’ at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.

          – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

          Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord’s grace smiled on His ungrateful children.

          – Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7

          i could go on but ill leave it at that.

          • Anonymous says:

            Hitler was not Christian! Hitler rejected Christianity.
            The book Hitler’s Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler’s real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler’s Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

            All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:
            Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

            National Socialism and religion cannot exist together…. The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity…. Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
            10th October, 1941, midday:

            Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
            14th October, 1941, midday:

            The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death…. When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity…. Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity…. And that’s why someday its structure will collapse…. …the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little…. Christianity the liar…. We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)
            19th October, 1941, night:

            The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
            21st October, 1941, midday:

            Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer…. The decisive falsification of Jesus’ doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work… for the purposes of personal exploitation…. Didn’t the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)
            13th December, 1941, midnight:

            Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery…. …. When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)
            14th December, 1941, midday:

            Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don’t believe the thing’s possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself…. Pure Christianity– the Christianity of the catacombs– is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)
            9th April, 1942, dinner:

            There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)
            27th February, 1942, midday:

            It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors– but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity…. My regret will have been that I couldn’t… behold .” (p 278)

          • Anonymous says:

            this is a propaganda book written by hitler to gain followers while he was in jail. he wrote that stuff to get support. He did want to abolish christianity! 😮

          • Anonymous says:

            YAAA so try reading something more worthwhile than just 1 propoganda book! lololol RESEARCH!

          • Anonymous says:

            Considering he never once referenced Christ or the Bible, these quotes hardly support the idea that Hitler was a Christian. If anything, this shows that he believed in a god and was convinced he did the work of that god.

            Hitler was a Social/Political Darwinist. His writings made it clear he believed the Arians (especially blonde-haired, blue-eyed Germans) were a superior race and should eliminate the “inferior” Jews, blacks, and gays. His beliefs were, in reality, the logical progression of “survival of the fittest.”

        • Anonymous says:

          woah woah woah woah woahhhhhhhh. The Church and Christianity are incredibly different. The Church is run by men who are close to God. Christianity is purely God and all of his glory. See the difference? Church has man involved, an obvious flaw and corrupted by sin. One can be a full fledged Christian and not agree with the Church. So if Hitler wanted to do away with the Church, I’d say thats a good thing… It would allow people to fully give themselves to God without the hinderence of the political church. It doesn’t mean Hitler was not a Christian.

      • jay says:

        hitler was not a Christian. this is well documented. he was an evolutionist. he was NOT a Christian. many people who claim to be are not. Just because someone associates themselves with God or even Jesus, doen’t make them a Christian. Their actions confirm their words. listen to what people say with your eyes, not your ears

        • Anonymous says:

          damn…. believing in Creationism or evolutionism doesn’t matter. What matters is worshiping God and Jesus. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, no matter what else you think, you are Christian.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yeah he was.

  7. Anonymous says:

    I think this is a great concept, but as people have said, Hitler wasn’t a christian, and Malcolm X and Bill gates are both debatable. That’s all that I would change though, it’s a good perspective though.

  8. Robert says:

    Religion quite often a front, a masquerade behind which criminals hide. Of course the same could be said for politics.
    The thing to remember here is, peoples actions count for far more than people’s words.

  9. Annonymous says:

    Hahahahahahhahahah. You think Bill Gates is ethical? I suggest you do more research, man.

  10. ejes says:

    except that hiter claimed to be on a mission from god, as did osama bin ladin. but joseph stalin didn’t claim to be on a mission from atheism.

  11. someone smart says:

    hitler was an aeithiest and malcom X was a bad guy just an fyi

  12. Ducre says:

    Yeah I like the points made in this, however I disagree with certain characters chosen. The norm would be for me to be annoying about it all and say something to piss people off, but I’m not interested in that. Malcolm X was a jerk, sure he changed his violent ways before he got shot, but there are better muslims outs there to use as the positive. And i agree with the other posters about Bill Gates, sure his methods weren’t exactly agreeable, business is business, don’t play the capitalism game hoping to win millions if you can’t accept getting stepped on by those who actually win. Darwinism.

  13. Frank says:

    How was malcom X a good person he was a black supremecist……..

  14. Aldakoopa says:

    Malcolm X was a black supremacist. What the crap.

  15. James says:

    Im sorry, I thought it was ‘ethics dont correlate with facial hair.”

  16. Anonymous says:

    If you follow the teachings of the Christian religion then you’ll be ethical. But just saying “I’m a Christian” doesn’t make you anymore of a Christian then me saying, “I’m a goldfish” makes me a goldfish.

  17. ggggg says:

    all the “good” people are somehow american…

  18. Ben says:

    People comment on how much evil is done in the name of religion, then are rebutted by the non religious mass murders in history. The whole time they miss the connection between all the greatest evils to have ever walked the earth, its not religion its the state.

  19. Fred says:

    The thing is that most evil religious people do the horrible things they do because it tells them they should in whatever religious text they subscribe to; they actually follow the precepts of their religion most accurately.

  20. Rayeth says:

    “..religious moderates are giving cover to fundamentalists because of the respect that moderates demand of faith-based talk. Religious moderation doesn’t allow us to say the really critical things we must say about the abject stupidity of religious fundamentalism. And as a result, it keeps fundamentalism in play, and fundamentalists make very cynical and artful use of the cover they’re getting by the political correctness in our discourse.”

    -Sam Harris ( The End of Faith)

  21. Rayeth says:

    “..religious moderates are giving cover to fundamentalists because of the respect that moderates demand of faith-based talk. Religious moderation doesn’t allow us to say the really critical things we must say about the abject stupidity of religious fundamentalism. And as a result, it keeps fundamentalism in play, and fundamentalists make very cynical and artful use of the cover they’re getting by the political correctness in our discourse.”

    -Sam Harris ( The End of Faith)

  22. tim says:

    “..religious moderates are giving cover to fundamentalists because of the respect that moderates demand of faith-based talk. Religious moderation doesn’t allow us to say the really critical things we must say about the abject stupidity of religious fundamentalism. And as a result, it keeps fundamentalism in play, and fundamentalists make very cynical and artful use of the cover they’re getting by the political correctness in our discourse.”

    -Sam Harris ( The End of Faith)

  23. Mother says:

    And remember When god puts you all in the ovens, it will be forever.

  24. Erick says:

    I think the main thing that people are missing, is that it doesn’t matter about what religion one belongs to. A lot of people are baptised into the Catholic Church and yet when they mature, they completely disagree with its teachings. Religion doesn’t correlate with ethics at all, however being devout to a religion and acting according to its rules does. Christianity is about love, forgiveness and being morally and ethically correct, and as far as I know, Muslims do refer to Allah as “merciful” and “compassionate” too. If anyone tells you that religion supports any sort of hatred, then I suggest you stop listening to them and walk away.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Maybe you should read some more about Bill Gates…

  26. mattvdm says:

    awful examples for a good point. calling hitler a christian is spurious/cheap, he decimated swathes christianity in germany. and malcolm x was a racial separatist, and inciter of violence. putting him and MLK on the same side is frankly offensive.

    • tesmith47 says:

      you as a white person should study before you talk about black folks, is it any surprise malcom wanted to get away from whites considering their actions at that time? E.G. killing black american soldiers in uniform, blowing up black churches, murdering his father lynching black men and women, etc. ad nausem

      • FuckingMoron says:

        I went through your profile, read a lot of different discussions and answers. You are fucking retarded.

  27. Anonymous says:

    Malcolm X called for violence and anarchy. He wasn’t a nice muslim?

  28. Joe says:

    soooooo, all in all, this meme is a fail?

  29. Anonymous says:

    What does it make you evil or good, the fact that you’re or not a friend of the USA?

  30. Anonymous says:

    Jeje! Bill Gates?

  31. Cjc says:

    Umm.. interesting idea, faulty logic… your description of people as being either good or evil draws on moral and ethical categories which assume some sort of universally applicable ethic… ie.. calling Bin Ladin “evil.” Your argument breaks down from a position of moral relativism… This argument needs religion or at the very least an idea of universal good and evil to survive…. “being good” is a relative statement and you couldn’t judge anyone else by your standard without a universal application..

    PS secular humanism doesn’t work either, it derives its ethical standards from judeo-Christian norms..

  32. Kashif says:

    good idea, but poor knowledge
    Malcom X doesn’t represent Muslims, you could have given more examples.

  33. Mr.Mustacho says:

    religious people are only good when they’re black?

    the real revelation here is is that facial hair causes all evil
    (Luther cheated on his wife)

  34. Zegin says:

    Hitler was not christian. In his own words, “National Socialism and religion cannot exist together…. The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity…. Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.”

    • Make a claim, display the claim, provide no evidence. Typical Christianity. Hitler was a Christian http://goo.gl/F3W9W

      • Brother John says:

        Hitler’s religion was the cult of the state. At no point in Hitler’s adult life did he have anything to do with anything recognized as Christianity, except as he could torture and twist it for his own objectives. He was not a Christian, and Christianity as properly observed has nothing whatever to do with the Holocaust, Fred Phelps, or any other such thing.

        So I’ve had a look at that web site. “Hitler was a Christian” and “Jesus lied” on the same page.

        Bullshit. 100% nonsense, and the fool of the “month” was for 2006. Yeah. Current thought. I call shenanigans.

        You are either a fool or a troll. Possibly both.

        • No true Scotsman…

        • tesmith47 says:

          to the contrary Christianity had a lot to do with the jewish problem , the same as Christianity had a lot to do with the enslavement and murder of africans

          • Brother John says:

            Wrong.

            • tesmith47 says:

              i can prove what i say , the written words of the christian church before the inquisition say they want to either convert or kill all the jews, pretty plain language!
              the christian church “blessed” the slave ships and gave them christian names like the good ship jesus!!! a pretty good endorsement i would say!!

              now what is your “proof”?

            • Brother John says:

              You haven’t proven anything, you’ve just made pointless assertions. In no case does Christianity command people to “kill or convert,” no matter what the historical behaviour of its adherents might have been. Christians are enjoined to bear witness, not kill or convert. You’re either making things up or confusing this with Islam. In the Epistles, nations will be judged according to their treatment of the nation of Israel.

              In those cases where evil (killing/converting, slaving, etc) has been done in the name of Christianity, or against Christians, or by Christians, you’re talking politics – not faith or religion.

              In any event, you veered predictably from the point. The idea that Hitler was a Christian or observed any such thing is complete nonsense. Religion for him was a tool used to manipulate people, nothing more. This is the same viewpoint taken by others of his kind, such as Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and others.

              I’m not wasting any more time on this or you, especially since (a) you aren’t arguing logically, and (b) you aren’t writing coherently.

            • tesmith47 says:

              deny, deny, deny, typical response of theist when presented with facts.

            • Brother John says:

              Whine, whine, whine, typical response of a dumbass without facts, unable to refute a logical and cogently presented argument.

            • kurt says:

              they also says that malcolm x wasn’t a black supremacist terrorist founder of the black panthers… so

            • TURTLE says:

              your facts were well cited, developed and convincing. Someone got into college thanks to affirmative action. god bless amerICA.

            • dickmonkey says:

              Cite the exact words of the bible.

    • safetynet2razorwire says:

      “I believe one thing: there is a Lord God! And this Lord God creates the peoples.” “We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations; we have stamped it out” Adolph Hitler (both quotes).

      The most popular (and both attractive and necessary) Christian tenet is, arguably, the assertion that simply ‘accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as personal saviour’ is enough to be, in the eyes of that all-seeing deity, grounds for salvation. It is this tenet that allows mafia capos and hit-men to remain devout members in good standing of their churches. It is the tenet that has allowed many tyrants – from Constantine to ‘Il Duce’, from Charlemagne to ‘Der Fuehrer’, from Ferdinand II to Franco, from Ivan to Putin – allowed them to remain members of the flock even while a multitude suffered from their pathological predations. And it has allowed ordinary men and women to lend their hand to atrocity after atrocity century after century – and still feel welcome in church every Sunday morning. Concentration Camp guards had no problem showing their scrubbed faces in either Catholic or Lutheran churches. From Chancellor down to SS private they asserted their aggression and atrocities were divinely mandated crusades. Protestant and Catholic churches spread and blessed the Nazi message and mission. So much so that dissident clerics like one of my personal heroes (despite his being a dogmatic Christian as they make) Dietrich Bonhoeffer stand out as rare in the general rush of churches and the folk who filled the pews to lockstep to those rallies and exploit, torment, then turn in their Jewish neighbours. Bonhoeffer, unlike the churches themselves, spoke out – and, as per the title of his book ‘The Cost of Discipleship’, he was executed during the last days of the war. It is important to remember that in Germany of the early-mid 20th century the question wasn’t whether or not you were Christian but whether you were Lutheran or Catholic. And it is equally important to remember that support for the Nazi race laws in that referendum ran to circa 93%. And not only those condemned as ‘Christ-killing Jews’ (twisted irony there being any crucifying done in 1st century CE Palestine was done by guys who spoke Latin) were stripped of their human rights and dignities with a nod from churches and pew warmers – so were ‘godless’ socialists, homosexuals and gypsies. Each required to prominently display the mark of their new dehumanised status.

      No, Zegin, The Third Reich from Hitler down to those kids in the Hitler Youth were Christians by declaration and by public display. They even swore to it on government identification documents. The cross and the broken cross dwelt side by side in the same hearts.

  35. Liu Xaun says:

    Don’t call call people evil. It defeats the purpose of your message entirely.

  36. Ha, all I got from this was be careful with facial hair. One small mustache could be the difference between good and evil!

    Funny drunken mayhem by clicking my name

  37. Anonymous says:

    Hitler rejected Christianity and Malcolm X believed in violent military actions for African Americans against white Americans and wanted to further cause separation of the two instead of integration like the civil rights movements. This pic is an awful rendition of whatever point it was trying to make.

  38. Anonymous says:

    FUCK OFF GUYS! Stop looking at the examples and look at the point.. Religion is a free and individual choice. unfortunately many religions come with a heavy political weight. The organization of religions causes bad things to happen because human are drawn to do bad things. When a bunch of people get together, someone is going to do something unethical, No matter what background these groups of people come from. And sometimes that person might just be a leader of the group. That doesn’t mean the whole group is unethical. I love this post, not for the examples, but for the point that is made with your words and the situations in which these people changed.

  39. Anonymous says:

    HITLER, STALIN, AND BIN LADEN KILLED TONS OF PEOPLE!!
    KING, MALCOLM X, and BILL GATES DIDNT!

    Thats his basis for good and evil. TO ME THAT SUMS IT UP PRETTY WELL!

    • andres says:

      well you have low standards…malcolm x was not hitler but he was not good, he was a black supremacist and a criminal…if killing determines good vs bad your idea of right and wrong is outdated by some hundreds of thousands of years…

  40. olvap says:

    Bil gates is a good person? may be not the best example.

  41. olvap says:

    ha! all the good guys are americans. Hitller wassnt cristian, you should use ex president Bush. but you have a lot of good examples in your cuntry.

  42. ethan says:

    why is osama bin laden evil? i think hes a hero

  43. wouldntyouliketoknow says:

    Worst stumbleupon ever!
    & your guys comments aren’t even worth reading…let me hit the stumble button again and find something better.
    THUMBS DOWN losers/racists

  44. chip says:

    you used really bad examples for christians and muslims… martin luther king jr cheated on his wife constantly… malcolm x proposed killing white people numerous times… also one could hardly call hitler a real christian, similarly one could hardly call bin ladin a muslim. just my opinion. i do agree with what you were getting across, i just think you used poor uses of people.

    • Yeah Prolly says:

      Who do you think they should have used? Mind you, the whole point is that the people be iconic to nth degree.

  45. Anonymous says:

    Malcom X was a militant extremist. your argument is invalid

    • tesmith47 says:

      well what do you expect after whites murdered his father for trying to vote?
      oh , you did not know that?

  46. Alive says:

    Yeah, facial hair does!

  47. Tara says:

    Hitler wasn’t Christian….

  48. Yeah Prolly says:

    “Religion, or lack thereof, does not always correlate with ethics.” would have been better also. But I like this as well. Tremendously so. Annnnnd (try not to die of shock) I’m a Christian.

  49. Anonymous says:

    Hitler wasn’t Christian, he was agnostic.

  50. Jo Dawg says:

    Check up your history Malcolm X, wasnt a good Muslim.

  51. Opinionated *and* educated says:

    Adolf Hitler stated that the greatest evil he had to deal with was Christianity and his plans of genocide were fueled by the theories of natural selection and evolution. Fact Check. Please and thank you.

  52. Phil E. Drifter says:

    religitards are greedy. They’re not happy with their finite life, they think they can live FOREVER… (after they die) if they adhere to rules that were finally written down by primitives after figuring out they could write them down instead of embellishing them with each retelling.

    They were tripping balls on natural drugs like hallucinogenic (psylocybin) mushrooms, peyote… cannabis…

  53. andres says:

    True, and nice poster by the way BUT you are just agreeing with what an atheist would tell you about religious people and atheists alike. Yes, there are good and bad religious people just as there are good and bad atheists but what is terrible is when a good person sees an otherwise bad act as good or acceptable or required by the religion they practice. I don think this can be said of those who seek to reduce human suffering by interpreting thousands of years of data describing suffering? These people are mostly not religious (though some religious people subscribe to these beliefs) these people are deists, agnostics, atheists. Religion has been an essential part of human evolution but we’ve reached a point where those beliefs which are based on miraculous stories can kill millions and we simply cannot afford to ignore this. Extremism exists and it is a product of religion.
    On a last note, Stalin did not kill millions of his people because of his atheism, but who here has an example of people killing “because it said so” in their religious book?

  54. imjustaman says:

    February 28, 2012 at 1:54 PM

    Anon, You’re absolutely right!
    People need to understand what is really going on.. They say people who are Depressed have got the idea in this day and age;Life is what you make it, the mind is a powerful thing.. Pitty we don’t use our full potential because of this… ‘economy’ we live in.. Nothing you can do about it unless we
    UNITE AS ONE!

    divided we fall- IN NUMBERS WE STAND! STRONG!
    LIKE FUCKIN REALLY HARD METAL!

  55. Tyler says:

    Hitler wasn’t a christian and Malcolm X wasn’t good.

    • 471 says:

      Dumbass. Check your facts.

    • Christian nazi belt buckle “god is with us” http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/148444/1069962.jpg

      Plenty of Hitler speeches where he brags about killing Jews for Jesus.

    • Every time a King of a different Christian Domination would change that kill King would set out to kill all those who weren’t his particular version of Christianity. Killing people who are different is a cornerstone of the vile, sick, twisted Christian superstition. King rule was an invention of the Christian superstition. It was only when secularist Deist revolted in 1776 did Christian King Rule die.

    • Potates says:

      Malcolm X had noble values, and was less connected to unnecessary violence than any taxpaying American today.

      • tesmith47 says:

        given the long history of white violence and killing blacks in america, it is the heights of hypocrisy for whites to complain about malcom x being violent!!, the KKK killed malcoms father when he was a child, it is a testament to his understanding and forgivenss that he did not hate all whites forever!!!!

    • tesmith47 says:

      hitler was a christian and malcom x was excellent

      • Titlesaretrue says:

        If I go and kill millions of people and call myself a Buddhist, well there you have it. Even though buddhism is a nonviolent religion, I call myself buddhist so I am.

  56. Jalon says:

    I don’t have a “holy” book that extols the virtues of genocide towards those of a different belief system. I am not required to believe that the same “god” that ordered theses atrocities is a loving one.

  57. mildly amused says:

    Hitler was not a Christian. He was an atheist.

    • John Doe says:

      He was religious. maybe not a christian although he did make references to the christian God in is biography mein kampf. He defiantly wasn’t an atheist.

  58. Anonymous says:

    This is garbage. Back to the drawing board.

  59. AnAlchemist says:

    I’d keep the “not always” because of Divine Command Ethics

  60. jose says:

    did someone else realized that all the good people there were american?

  61. Anonymous says:

    can we all just saY karma will bite ya in da ass!!!

  62. Nerfherder17 says:

    Any religious person would claim that their opinions on ethics were given to them by God, as God is the one which (according to religious people) makes the rules. Religion always corresponds with ethics, Hitler almost certainly thoguht he was doing the moral thing.

  63. Butthole Jr. says:

    Nope, it conflates with bad facial hair, apparently.

  64. JoeClark says:

    Bill Gates is a eugenicist who promotes vaccines as a means of population reduction. He also recently took a huge stake in Monsanto, a corporation whose toxic food is known to cause sterility, cancer and a host of other health problems. Gates is one of the biggest criminals of our era and reportedly is very close to being revealed as such. (See benjaminfulford (dot) net)

    Amongst many other problems I have with your choices.
    This whole article is riding “teh fail boat”.

    • John Doe says:

      Don’t even suggest you know enough about bill gates to determine whether he is a ‘good” or “bad” person.

      • Brother John says:

        Anyone who subscribes to discredited theories of “population reduction” and helps fund such actions is, as far as I’m concerned, evil. I think it’s fabulous that Gates (helped) create something that made lives better and wealth generation easier. It’s evil that he thinks he or anyone else is qualified to decide who lives or dies, or when there are ‘too many’ people. I don’t need to know anyone personally to understand that this is evil.

    • SpaceJams says:

      i just researched this but his facts are spot on i guess you can debate the assumption if all that makes bill a bad person or not

      • Let’s see, most people in the USA buy food grown by Corporations. Most of my friends don’t have a garden.

        Most people buy Corporate made clothes, entertainment, news, transportation, communication. Everyone I know has a smartphone which tracks every smartphone users. So those who proclaim someone else evil need look in the mirror. That’s what was so pitiful about the Tea Party. They drove to their rallies wearing corporate made clothes, ate Corporate grown food, communicated with Corporate manufactured tools, and communicated with Corporate manufactured equipment while driving to the rally on socialist built roads, stop signs, rallied in socialist maintained parks. Take back their country?!!? They can’t even take back their lives!! It’s truly the most pitiful events ever demonstrated.

        Those of us who make much of our own things and are building a community of sustainable abundance through cooperative and collective endeavors are ridiculed by those who think their superior than we are when they wait around for someone else to created a job for them. Guess what? The rich and wealthy are done with creating jobs for us, feeding us, providing us with propaganda which we call news. The Age of CyberInterNetics is setting them free of us. http://scoop.it/t/cyberinternetics

        Some of us wise to the future and are prepared. Good luck to those who are sheep for the .0001% Jesus frontman.

        • hello pot here is kettle.

        • Brother John says:

          You start on the road to making a point … but your fundamental misunderstanding of the Tea Party and what those events meant sinks your argument into incoherence and pointlessness.

          • Brother John. Interesting you just state as fact that I’ve got a misunderstanding of the Tea Party while providing no facts. This is the fundamentalist tactic. No evidence, So let’s see the facts that the rest of us have misunderstood. Cause at this moment, the Tea Party amongst most Americans, don’t come off well.

            • Brother John says:

              Not that there is a point, but very well. Simply put, there isn’t anything wrong with buying clothing, technological devices, food, and tools made by corporations. Corporations aren’t necessarily evil, since you can choose to or not to deal with them. There also isn’t anything in particular wrong with roads built by functioning governments, either. Even we libertarians understand that there is a proper but narrowly defined role for a government. You cannot choose not to have any interaction with governments, though, and that’s what the Tea Parties stood for — overreaching governments insinuating themselves into everyday life in invasive and extraordinary ways.

              It is not the job of the evil rich and wealthy to provide anyone with anything. They do so by choice. They fill a demand, they create a market and respond to it.

              I have a garden, by the way, it’s growing lush and rampant.

            • I’m sure it is as you say, you don’t understand.

    • How’s your garden growing Joe?

  65. Datamonkee says:

    You ass monkies are totally missing the point.. way to nit pick a good statement with the minutia of idiocy.

    • Tragicallyhipfan says:

       Thank you!!!

    • Brother John says:

      First, if one cites ‘facts’ that are not true – as the writer of this silly graphic does – then one does not make a point. One reveals one’s ignorance and idiocy and pointless agenda.

      Second, learn to spell.

  66. BrianC says:

    Hitler was not Christian… he was pretty widly known for his belief/practice of the occult. Though I like the thought of “religiosity” not equating to a truly ethical mindset, I do not like the rather egregious mislabeling of Adolfo Hitler as a Christian – besides Christianity is not a faith of intellectual agreement, a set of ethical codes, or a rule book for right and wrong behavior; a true Christian is one who seeks God through His revelation (the Bible, Holy Spirit, or in Paul’s case Christ physically appearing before him) and lives in pursuit of understanding the God who hated the way we betrayed His love, yet still loved us so much that He provides a means of reconciliation.

    • John Doe says:

      Being a “good” christian is loving god and loving all people no matter what. Understanding god is virtually impossible for us. We wouldn’t be able to comprehend it.

    • 471 says:

      There are plenty of christians that practice or believe in the occult, even if you don’t believe in that.

  67. lifemare says:

    There are good people and bad people? Holy shit! My mind is blown!

  68. arcticbananas says:

    To start, let it be said that I am a very religious person. Morals and ethics are strongly encouraged in all religions (I’ve studied most of them), which undeniably help followers maintain high moral and ethical standards. I have a lot of respect for religious people who can maintain high moral standards even though the world is declining morally. It’s easy to be good when you have something to believe in.
    However, I have ten–no, a hundred times the respect for people who are moral and ethical and they’re not religious at all. These are the truly strong people.

    • Whatever says:

      What I got from this comment was that by not choosing religion you’re a weaker person. That being a good person must be so hard for those without “something to believe in”.
      I can’t express how mad this makes me without being very rude…

    • Whatever says:

      What I got from this comment was that by not choosing religion you’re a weaker person. That being a good person must be so hard for those without “something to believe in”.
      I can’t express how mad this makes me without being very rude…

  69. Anti-theist says:

    Religion is inherently evil, what people do in the name of it is irrelevant, it promotes fear, shame and the insane idea that someone beyond this world is judging you with his infallible code of ethics. Believing in the possibility of something beyond our own reality is all well and good, but claiming to have any understanding of such a thought is fucking stupid.

  70. Heathor says:

    Uh…please correct me if I’m being ignorant, but didn’t Malcolm X promote violence? On a side note, I’m not impressed with the chart overall…Iv’e seen better.

    • tesmith47 says:

      no he did not, what he said if if whites continued to lynch, and murder black folks and the government would continue to look the other way then blacks would damn well fight back!!!
      whites had a heart attack when he said that because for 120 years whites had been abusing blacks
      in every way possible from lynching to rape to beatings with the government tacitly agreeing. and the black community had been silently taking the abuse , praying to an imaginary jesus for help (LOL)

      • FuckingMoron says:

        Reparations are the way to go. One time my great grandpa told a black guy a bad thing. Now send a minority to college over me, but don’t call it racial profiling, thats only for minorities.

  71. Carl Pham says:

    Sure, and there are people in prison for murder who are innocent of any crime at all, and there are people walking the streets free who have killed five men and two women.

    What’s your point? That any rule admits of exceptions? Wow, that’s deep.

    Just maybe, you want to consider that people tend to use group characteristics as a quick heuristic guess as to what to expect, typically, from its members. So (for example), we don’t expect women to be murderers — because they most aren’t, although there are exceptions. We expect fathers to love their sons, because they mostly do, although there are exceptions. We expect people who post on the Internet to be ADHD loud-mouthed jerks, because they mostly are.

    Same with religions. We look at how those groups typically behave, and use that as the first guide as to what to expect when we come across one of its members, about whom we know nothing else. Obviously, anyone with a brain discards the stereotype in favor of actual experience with the actual person — as soon as he has some. But it’s not STUPID to use the stereotype when you have no data at all. You’ve often got to make SOME decision — how much do I trust right away? et cetera — and the stereotype is better than just flipping a coin. It’s only right on average, but that’s better odds than refusing to judge at all, the way the TSA resolutely refuses to guess that an 88-year-old blind Jewish grandmother in a wheelchair is just a smidge less likely to be carrying a knife with which to take over an airplane than a 22-year-old Egyptian man traveling without luggage and looking nervous. Which is, of course, stupid.

    If the point you want to make is that ON AVERAGE Catholics are no less dangerous than Muslims, and therefore members of both groups should enjoy exactly the same level of inherent trust (when we know nothing else about them) — go ahead, give that a shot. Look up the average number of people killed per year by Catholic zealots in terrorist violence over the past 25 years (I think we can leave data from the Inquisition of the 17th century out, as being unlikely to predict the behavious or 2012 Catholics). Now compare to the average number of people killed per year by Muslim zealots in terrorist violence over the past 25 years.

    Now compare. There’s your FACT-BASED stereotype, which is just as valid as the stereotype that says smokers tend to get cancer more than non-smokers. It’s not dumb cracker paranoia. It’s common sense.

    • Just a thought says:

      while your points are well laid out, I do have to direct you to Ireland. Quite a lot of Catholic based terroristic activity going on there.

  72. Joe says:

    Hi, I became a Christian two years ago. While I know that I’m still ignorant compared to the experts out there, let me say this much for the Christ followers out there
    Calling yourself a Christian, or even being known as a Christian, doesn’t necessarily make you one. A Christian is someone who acknowledges their depravity and turns to Christ for his saving grace. From then on this new Christian is called to Sanctification: growing to look more like Christ’s example of what we were meant to be. There should be what we call “fruit of the spirit,” or evidence that this person has been deeply changed. From what I can tell, Adolf Hitler was not a Christian (as far as I know because I can’t tell what God has done to a man’s heart) because he had no spiritual fruit.
    In short: if I told everyone that I was a cat and even came to believe that I was a cat, I’m still not a cat because I don’t have whiskers and a tail…
    I’d even bet that most Muslims wouldn’t claim Osama Bin Laden as a true Muslim either. Bin Laden was such an extremest that he mutated his religion into something of violence and hatred: a trait I fail to see Muslims have.
    With all that said, i’m going to throw a curve ball at you internet, so try to keep an open mind and listen to me. I’d argue that no one actually meets God’s standards, and so we are not in fact “good.” (Before you say it, I know Genesis 1:31 says “And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good…”, but that was creation in its original perfect state… not the mess we’ve made of things since then. Today, Romans 3:12 is more applicable – “All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”) Society has carved its own moral definition of good – one that can be obtained by obeying the law, tipping your waiters, and giving a bit of what you have to those who have not. This not only allows for social order, but gives people something to be proud of. While I see how this is beneficial on a global scale today, I can not allow myself to fall into the trap of believing that I am good. This can only lead to a sinful pride issue and the belief that I am sufficient for my justification – which I am not. If I were good, then what did Christ die for? The simple truth is that what the world consideres sufficient is not nearly enough in God’s eyes. Let me make that clear for those quickly scrolling by:

    I AM NOT A GOOD PERSON, NO ONE IS.

  73. Person With Brain says:

    @Carl Pham: Grouping people together because of religion as the basis of these evaluations of ‘trust’ is so reductionist as to be useless. The defining characteristic of a Muslim terrorist organization is that it is a terrorist organization, not that it is a Muslim organization. And terrorist acts are not the only kind of violence. Let’s leave aside the fact that you cannot possibly quantify the total murders perpetrated by the subscribers to any particular religion. The fact is that there are all types of goods and evils associated with almost any religion. I, for one, count the dogmatic obstinacy of the Judeo-Christian religions as a great evil imposed upon billions of people. Ideas of self-importance and superiority inherent in many teachings – specifically as perverted by banner waving sects – has hindered social progress the world over for 2000+ years – not to mention the outright torture, murder, oppression and spiritual agony these religions have created over that span of time which, regardless of the number on your calendar today, still count. The point of the post is that religion cannot be used as a barometer for ethical/moral sensibility. People have done evil since we walked out of the jungle – regardless of whether they had a holy book in their hand. The link between ‘Muslim’ and ‘murder’ is no weaker or stronger than the link between ‘Christian’ and ‘murder’ or ‘human’ and ‘murder.’ It is not causal like the smoking/cancer binary – nowhere close. Also, consider that most Muslims live in significantly different environments than most Christians, i.e., a lot of Muslims live in awful, violent areas – which has much more to do with the historical malfeasance of white/Euro/Christians than anything inherently ‘Muslim.’ You are typing on a computer. As contrast, many (most?) extremist Muslims dodge RPG fire in their free time.

  74. cdogyadig5000 says:

    woah these people who commented are nuts, I thought this was interesting, even if you don’t agree, why the harshness? Well anyways he could have used other people its still true. This point goes further than just good and bad people,it explains that just because you are religious doesn’t mean you’re better and vice versa. Many people tend to think they are better because of it and religion automatically makes you this pure amazing person who is obviously doing the right thing or whatever, but the facts are that well yeah what this diagram said, ya dig 🙂
    people gotsta stop there trippin, maybe you guys should tie yo shoes?

  75. whoevermadethisisaDimwit says:

    Bullshit. Hitler wasn’t a christian and Bill Gates is quite clearly a cunt.

  76. Cassandra says:

    Maybe we should all just ignore the people used as examples, and pay attention to the point it’s trying to make.

  77. mel says:

    bill gates.
    hi-fucking-larious.
    stopped reading.

  78. very interesting topic

  79. Organized superstitions which call for the death of all non-beleivers are evil and anyone who would join an organized superstition is evil as well. We all know about Islam yet Christianity in the ‘end times,’ which all Christians are praying for, calls for Jesus to return, kill all non-believers, establish a Christian Fascist Government which kills anyone born after this fake Jesus becomes king of the Earth who dares disagree with this new world order of Christian Fascism. Many say non-believers must tolerate the very organized superstitions whose agenda is to kill us. That’s insane. Should’ve the world tolerated Nazi Germany? Of course not!! Non-believers must arm themselves with common sense, logic, reason, the Scientific Method & be ready to defend in ourselves word & deed. Their agenda is clear. Organized superstition intends to kill us if they ever gain Global political power

    • lawabidingcitizen says:

      That’s a pretty dramatic way of looking at the coming of Christ. although I do see how you come to that view. A great many Christians behave in a way completely contrary to the teachings of Christ and should not rightly be called christian. They do as you say. Pray for his coming to cleanse the world of non believers. But what they do not understand is that they will be held accountable for their actions and their hate filled words. Their lips may draw close to God at times but their hearts are far from Him.

      Truth is When Christ comes many people who do not know him but are of good heart and just in their treatment of their fellow man will be spared because God knows their hearts. Those Christians that thought to pass their own judgement and pray for the destruction of their fellow men will be the ones Who will be punished. They were given truth and light and with that truth sought to put themselves above others. For that they will pay.
      You need not fear a true christian. One who prays that God stay his hand. To have mercy upon those who do not understand. Christ said to teach his word to all the world. Not force my word upon all the world and kill any who don’t accept it.

      • lawabidingcitizen, Yahweh is a bigoted, racist, hateful cold blooded murderous being. If you believe otherwise you are woefully sadly pathetically mistaken. Read your bible.

        • lawabidingcitizen says:

          Are you saying you are woeful over a sad mistake you think I have made? I feel no woe, or sadness for that matter. Quite the contrary. I am full of joy and certainty.
          Just out of curiosity, where do you get your authority to make such claims? Are you a Theologian? Perhaps you are well studied in ancient civilizations and religion? Your science has told you so?
          I am not mistaken. I have spent a great part of my life researching the scriptures. I study them and apply their teachings to my life. I see how a person who has a brief introduction to the scriptures and “cherry picks” the wrathful parts would come to a conclusion such as yours especially combined with the garbage of false Christians. But your attempt to insult me or anger me will not work. Your understanding is deeply flawed and closed-minded.
          My intention was not to exchange insults with you, I had hoped for a civilized debate but you are quick to belittle and your attempt to assert your “superior” opinion by insults reminded me of a teenager that has no intelligent input to offer discussion. Adeus
          End line.

  80. mobius says:

    get over the “good vs evil” dualism dude

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